Good Old UI, Anyone?

Good Old UI, Anyone?

Postby YetAnotherUser » Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:33 pm

Currently I am being forced to move from an old localized version of Sticky Password 5 to another password manager, and the only thing that stops me from getting the several licenses I need is the new user interface.

I'm afraid I won't be able to emphasize it enough, but people who're conscious enough to buy a password manager are people who work on PCs and not play on Android tablets. That said, a program should also be functional, informative and intuitive, as it used to be in the past, instead of being glamorous and tablet/Win8-styled like it is now. The new interfaces we are forced to move to have every sort and kind of buttons all over the place (one menu here, actions panel there, dropdown options as an icon, click-to-change, dropdowns of logins, save/close faaar in the bottom of the window etc.), and those drastically increase the amount of time we spend on clicking and moving the mouse around. Moreover, basic UI windows are now constrained to a single window which cannot even inform us where in the hierarchy we actually are.

To sum it up: a password manager is not a trinket - I do not want it to be shiny, I want it to make my work easier.

And as I do understand that nobody is actually going to change anything back, I'll suggest several features that would at least make using the manager a bit easier:

    1) Showing a column of all logins in "Used logins" column instead of "2 Logins", "3 Logins" etc. Why should I need to open the entry to get the info I can get straight away? The usual tree navigation was neat and nice, and I see no reason why it had to be removed (apart from the urge to implement a "single window" interface). If this cannot be implemented directly, you can at least leave an option.
    2) An option to open the entry editing in another window - that way I can still see the other logins and entries while editing the current one. No, the dropdown menu for logins is no good for it.
    3) Please fix the auto-trimming of entry names and texts. I cannot tell if it happens on high-DPI monitors only, but there's virtually NO reason to trim the name while there's so much free space anyway. Screenshot attached.
    4) Under no circumstances should an update reminder demand as much attention as to minimize fullscreen apps! If you're working fullscreen, you get interrupted halfway through a project; if you're playing fullscreen, you die/lose; if you're in a team, you let your teammates down and die/lose. Tray notifications have been invented for that particular function - for notification instead distraction.
    5) There should be an option to turn off automatic log-on globally for new entries, or at least an option to tick it off directly when adding a new account entry.
    6) Having entry name and link directly editable would be nice. I don't see any sense in introducing several different (!) fool-proof methods for such minor fields as long as there's a "Save" button anyway.
    7) The import of old databases just ignores any groups and the groups along with the accounts stored in it are not imported at all. The import should instead create those groups and import the accounts. The auto-logon enabled/disabled options are also ignored, which has already led to many frustrating experiences.
I do hope that Sticky Password marketing staff understands that many people in the world still require soft that works efficiently and not just looks modern.

Thank you for your attention.
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Re: Good Old UI, Anyone?

Postby Evzen » Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:38 pm

Can you give some more details about the import of old databases (point Nr.7)?
I just tried installing SP7 over SP5 and everything worked correctly - both the automatic conversion during SP7 setup and also the manual import correctly imported the groups with accounts included in them.

I'm afraid that your problems might be related to some garbage inside the SP5 database structure (invisible in the user data), which makes the import/conversion fail in different aspects. There were many weird problems related to such issues. Generally, exporting the database from the older version to XML and importing to new version from the XML (eventually with checking the XML content for any obvious garbage prior to the import) helped in such cases.
Perhaps you can try this...

Also, SP5 allowed to create duplicate account entries, e.g. using import (while using manual method in Manage Database it was not possible) and SP7 does not allow this ==> such duplicities are ignored during import.
It was also possible to create separate accounts with different logins in SP5 - such accounts are joined together into a single account with multiple logins during the conversion/import.
So it's possible that if you had such accounts located both in a group and in 'root', only the 'root' ones were retained during the conversion/import.
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Re: Good Old UI, Anyone?

Postby YetAnotherUser » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:54 pm

Actually moving the database through exporting XML and then importing XML was what I did (following the advice of support) since the original program was Kaspersky Password Manager 5.0.0.176 - a copy of Sticky Password with a different logo. I checked the XML and it seemed like all the folder (group) data was present, but it just didn't get imported.

I don't have duplicate accounts, and I've searched for those entries anyway - they just vanished during import.
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Re: Good Old UI, Anyone?

Postby Evzen » Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:36 pm

Ah, Kaspersky Password Manager... that's a BIG difference! Why people don't provide EXACT and COMPLETE information right away?! It would save a lot of time and misunderstanding on both sides... :-\

While Kaspersky Password Manager might LOOK the same as Sticky from OUTSIDE, it doesn't say anything about its INTERNAL workings, differences and bugs...

Basically, the XML exported from KPM 5 is missing some information expected by the SP7 import routine, so (some) groups are not imported.
To be able to import the groups you need to edit the XML and add a "ParentID" attribute to each "Group" element where this attribute is missing.

add ParentID="-5" for Web Accounts groups
add ParentID="-4" for App Accounts groups
add ParentID="-3" for Bookmarks groups
(ParentID="-2" for Secure Memos groups is already present, in separate node)

For example this
Code: Select all
      <Group CreatedDate="X" ModifiedDate="Y" Name="Email" ID="67" IconIndex="-29"/>
      <Group CreatedDate="X" ModifiedDate="Y" Name="Finance" ID="68" IconIndex="-39"/>
      <Group CreatedDate="X" ModifiedDate="Y" Name="Forums" ID="69" IconIndex="-42"/>
      <Group CreatedDate="X" ModifiedDate="Y" Name="Gaming" ID="70" IconIndex="-24"/>

should become
Code: Select all
      <Group CreatedDate="X" ModifiedDate="Y" Name="Email" ID="67" ParentID="-5" IconIndex="-29"/>
      <Group CreatedDate="X" ModifiedDate="Y" Name="Finance" ID="68" ParentID="-5" IconIndex="-39"/>
      <Group CreatedDate="X" ModifiedDate="Y" Name="Forums" ID="69" ParentID="-5" IconIndex="-42"/>
      <Group CreatedDate="X" ModifiedDate="Y" Name="Gaming" ID="70" ParentID="-5" IconIndex="-24"/>

However, even if you fix this, be prepared for further issues:

  • bookmarks won't be imported anyway since in SP5 (and KPM5) a "bookmark" is actually "account with no login and no password", but such accounts are not allowed in SP7 ==> such items are discarded during import
  • extended (non-ASCII) characters will be corrupted in imported items (e.g. in login names or in passwords(!)) due to some nasty bug in the XML export routine - the XML is stored as Unicode (and that's what the XML header says too), but the actual encoding of the characters seems to be UTF-8 :-\

All in all, the whole thing is... ummm, chaotic... :-\
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Re: Good Old UI, Anyone?

Postby YetAnotherUser » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:35 pm

Evzen wrote:Ah, Kaspersky Password Manager... that's a BIG difference! Why people don't provide EXACT and COMPLETE information right away?! It would save a lot of time and misunderstanding on both sides... :-\


Well, I did say "an old localized version of Sticky Password 5"... All the other info I ever got about it was that the only difference was the logos :?

Evzen wrote:Basically, the XML exported from KPM 5 is missing some information expected by the SP7 import routine, so (some) groups are not imported.

Ok, thanks for a possible solution - I may try it if I decide to upgrade in future. Though it is beyond my understanding that SP7 cannot just add a default node value (!) and instead drops them entirely without any notifications (!!!). Maybe it's my coding experience that tells me that such procedures make any product more stable and fool-proof; if it wasn't supposed to work with any other programs' XML, why would it need XML export in the first place?

Evzen wrote:All in all, the whole thing is... ummm, chaotic... :-\

Yes, so unfortunately, I believe it's not worth the hassle.
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