Odd STP interface behavior

Odd STP interface behavior

Postby hiclass » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:44 pm

Hi,

I am using Win7 x64 and I have my Win7 taskbar set to Autohide. That means if I move mouse pointer, touching the bottom of the screen, the hidden Taskbar will show up. This is standard Win7 Taskbar behavior (in fact it is standard MS Windows behavior ever since they implement a Taskbar), it works well with all my programs, particularly when I have them run in full screen mode.

But Sticky Password is odd. If I run it in full screen mode, my Win7 Taskbar will be hidden forever, no more Autohide, mouse pointer move to the bottom screen won't bring up the Taskbar. I have to press [Win] button to bring it up.

Please make it compatible with Windows Taskbar standard.

tslim
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Re: Odd STP interface behavior

Postby John Flyer » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:39 pm

The hidden Win7 (x64) taskbar works flawlessly on my computer.
:?: :?:
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Re: Odd STP interface behavior

Postby hiclass » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:05 pm

John Flyer wrote:The hidden Win7 (x64) taskbar works flawlessly on my computer.
:?: :?:


Are you sure you 're running it in full screen?
In my case, Sticky Password default window size is not full screen, I need to click the max win button on the top right to make it so and it is when in full screen mode that my Taskbar will be unable to appear in response to my mouse cursor. See this short video to better understand what I mean.

Btw, Sticky Password Window title bar is also odd, it is half the height of Win7 standard windows.
If I am running a few programs, say my browser Opera, MS Excel and Sticky Pssword and I am busy switching among them, mainly to copy data and paste into Sticky Password input fields... When I am finally done, I want to click the [x] button of Sticky Password to bring it down to the system tray like below
STP on top of opera.png


you might find it funny (or just something minor), but imagine 9 out of 10 times, I will close the wrong program.
Seriously, I have no similar problem with other programs which are running under normal/standard Win7 theme.

To the Sticky Password author:
I really don't enjoy the fancy look of the main interface nor being benefit from it at all.
I can't express in words my frustration when I keep closing the wrong programs...

Could you please do me a favor (I beg you), just let me run Sticky Password under standard Window theme mode, or at least, give me a chance to apply a more color striking skin to this program to make it a little bit more obvious?

Thank you.
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Re: Odd STP interface behavior

Postby John Flyer » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:03 pm

You are definitely right! Sorry, I was not completely aware of “FULL screen mode”. SP's behavior is not in accordance with the Windows standard. :oops:

But I must ask, why do you have to run SP this way? Isn't 98% of full size sufficient? (But Win standard is Win standard anyway!)

While testing this I noticed that all my apps stopped to react on the mouse movement (running Chrome/Open Office/Sticky).

Strange, I do not have “the half height title bar issue”. Could it be due to the graphical driver?
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Re: Odd STP interface behavior

Postby hiclass » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:55 pm

John Flyer wrote:But I must ask, why do you have to run SP this way? Isn't 98% of full size sufficient? (But Win standard is Win standard anyway!)

Because, if I run Sticky Password in non-full screen mode (you name it as 98% full size), I keep closing the wrong program. Please click on the image in my previous post and look at the top right corner. Imagine I accidently close my browser, man... I have to start all over again, opening those sites of interest, login and so on...

So, instead, I choose to run Sticky Password in 100% full screen mode, that at least prevent me from closing wrong program. However, this come with a price because I will loss the convenience of switching to another programs with my Taskbar (I find picking one from the Taskbar icons is the most efficient way if I run many programs)

John Flyer wrote: Strange, I do not have “the half height title bar issue”. Could it be due to the graphical driver?

If customize/personalize your window display as below:
Code: Select all
1. Control Panel->Appearance and Personalization->Display->Screen Resolution:
    Resolution: 1280x1024
2. Control Panel->Appearance and Personalization->Display->Set custom text size (DPI)
    Scale to this percentage of normal size: 125%
    [Checked] Use Window XP style DPI scalling
3. Control Panel->Appearance and Personalization->Personalization->Window Color and Appearance-> Advanced appearance settings
    Active Title Bar Size=28, Font=Segoe, font szie=11
    Inactive Title Bar Size=28, Font=Segoe, font szie=11
    Caption button Size=28
    Border Padding Size=5

You should see exactly the half height title bar as I do, I suppose.
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Re: Odd STP interface behavior

Postby Evzen » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:31 pm

hiclass wrote:Imagine I accidently close my browser, man... I have to start all over again, opening those sites of interest, login and so on...
No problem at all...
Browser restores your previous session, i.e. all windows and tabs, and Sticky takes care of the re-logins. Piece of cake...
hiclass wrote:If customize/personalize your window display as below:
Do you NEED these customizations? Do you really need 125% scale?
Because THAT'S what causes your troubles - it actually makes other programs' icons bigger (so Sticky icons look smaller).

Sticky keeps it's own window design regardless of what themes you set or further customizations you do (erhm, to some degree actually, some of the customizations "leak" into the GUI here and there...).

Just out of interest - do you NEED to have the GUI open? What for? Why don't you simply use the browser Caption Button?
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Re: Odd STP interface behavior

Postby John Flyer » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:32 pm

Thanks hiclass, finally I understand WHY you avoided the non-full screen mode. But why do you position the Sticky window in the upper right corner? Drag the window's size to the minimum and position the window in lower left corner. Then you should not hit the wrong closing box.

I have never experienced the red closing box to be a problem, maybe because I usually use the alt-tab key stroke to switch between windows.

When I acquired a new screen, Windows recommended to use the resolution 1920x1080, but then the text was almost impossible to read. I tried the 125% DPI setting, but I have bad experiences with this scale. Several programs (not Sticky) got “crazy”, as far as I can recall even Windows had some text problems (menus) depending of the font. In my case a screen resolution of 1280x768 is the most suitable to me (100% DPI); 1280x1024 looks weird on my screen.

And remember the hot key Ctrl-Alt-L to lock/unlock SP.
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Re: Odd STP interface behavior

Postby hiclass » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:48 am

Evzen wrote:No problem at all...
Browser restores your previous session, i.e. all windows and tabs, and Sticky takes care of the re-logins. Piece of cake...

Not true.
1. There isn't any browser which can restore at which position on a page i was previously at. After all restoring previous session isn't fun at all if I frequently need to do that.

2. Sticky Password can not auto-login many sites and I have reported quite a number of them.
e.g. one which I recently frequent http://discussions.listary.com/discussions. Try it!

Evzen wrote:Do you NEED these customizations? Do you really need 125% scale?

Yes, I do.

Evzen wrote:Because THAT'S what causes your troubles - it actually makes other programs' icons bigger (so Sticky icons look smaller).

THAT is what I want. It is only a trouble to Sticky Password main interface not to the rest of my utilities or applications. Btw, I have close to a hundred utilities installed on my PC, none have problem with the 125% scaling.

Evzen wrote:Just out of interest - do you NEED to have the GUI open? What for? Why don't you simply use the browser Caption Button?

If you read my first post, you should understand, I was in the mid of copying and pasting data into my Sticky Password database. I think this process happen to all new users of Sticky Password, unless they don't really plan to use the software seriously.

John Flyer wrote:But why do you position the Sticky window in the upper right corner?

It is the default position when one bring Sticky Password up from the system tray. Of course, I can move it after the main interface is up, but if I ever close it back to the system tray and bring it up again, it will automatically go to that position. Try it and you will understand what I mean.

John Flyer wrote:Drag the window's size to the minimum and position the window in lower left corner.

1. Sticky Password main interface has only 2 sizes. You either have it run in a) full screen mode (100% of the screen) or b) non-full screen mode at a fix size (full width but as you say 98% height). You CAN NOT drag to resize it to any other size than the two.

John Flyer wrote:position the window in lower left corner.
Then you should not hit the wrong closing box.

I won't... remember as in my first post, I was switching among program, copying and pasting data from other programs to Sticky Password. I won't want it to hide at lower left corner.

John Flyer wrote:When I acquired a new screen, Windows recommended to use the resolution 1920x1080, but then the text was almost impossible to read. I tried the 125% DPI setting, but I have bad experiences with this scale. Several programs (not Sticky) got “crazy”, as far as I can recall even Windows had some text problems (menus) depending of the font. In my case a screen resolution of 1280x768 is the most suitable to me (100% DPI); 1280x1024 looks weird on my screen.

I sit in front of my PC more than 10 hours a day. I want to ease my eyes.
I am using a full HD Samsung LED 32" TV as my monitor. everything looks great, big (easy for my eyes), high enough resolution and sharp.
125% DPI has never cause any problem in other programs, at least this is my case. I have close to 100 programs installed and about 2 dozen frequntly use utilities (those that have a GUI that I need to bring up and work with)

IMHO, if a program uses non-standard Windows behavior, particularly with a fancy skin, it should fix its size (i.e. make it non-resizable) and let user either a) choose their preferred color of the GUI or even choose among a list of skins.
Better still, if skinned program offer user to not using a skin.
and the below are 2 nicely skinned program for the reference of the Sticky Password author:
KMPlayer skinning.png
Skinning is a big issue, not merely for fun...



MediaMonkey Skinning.png
It requires more effort than one can imagine to make a program looks fancy...
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Re: Odd STP interface behavior

Postby Evzen » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:22 am

John Flyer wrote:When I acquired a new screen, Windows recommended to use the resolution 1920x1080, but then the text was almost impossible to read.
That's just first impression... people who worked with low resolution displays so far and never experienced high resolution have this feeling when they see a proper display.
If you don't "give up", you get used to the resultion very quickly and will never go back.

In general, setting any lower resolution than is native for the display is a very bad idea - the pixel mapping is not 1:1 then and everything looks blurry and ugly (I'm sure you won't agree, but it IS true and you can't do anything about it).
There are many articles about it, no point repeating it here again.
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Re: Odd STP interface behavior

Postby Evzen » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:24 am

hiclass wrote:1. There isn't any browser which can restore at which position on a page i was previously at. After all restoring previous session isn't fun at all if I frequently need to do that.
Oh. Okay. I don't see that as sooooo big problem, especially in 'disaster recovery' cases.

hiclass wrote:If you read my first post, you should understand, I was in the mid of copying and pasting data into my Sticky Password database. I think this process happen to all new users of Sticky Password, unless they don't really plan to use the software seriously.

Normally users are expected to easily and automatically IMPORT their data (e.g. from browsers).
Copying and pasting is NOT what users normally do.
May I know why didn't you use the import feature? Where did you have your passwords stored that you couldn't use import?

hiclass wrote:1. Sticky Password main interface has only 2 sizes. You either have it run in a) full screen mode (100% of the screen) or b) non-full screen mode at a fix size (full width but as you say 98% height). You CAN NOT drag to resize it to any other size than the two.
That's completely incorrect. In fact, this behavior is again specific to your conditions/setup.
Just switch your screen for a moment to native 1920x1080 resolution and default 100% scaling and you will see that Sticky Password window is nicely and freely resizable - when there is enough space on the screen...

And that's the point... in your setup there is not enough space to display the window even at it's default size, so it has to be downsized to fit on the screen - that's why it displays "98% fullscreen" by default for you.
And another applications with bigger default window sizes behave exactly the same.

The default size of the GUI window is 815x562 pixels on standard screen setup and it displays fine even on 800x600 resolution as recommended by Microsoft.

hiclass wrote:I sit in front of my PC more than 10 hours a day. I want to ease my eyes.
I am using a full HD Samsung LED 32" TV as my monitor. everything looks great, big (easy for my eyes), high enough resolution and sharp.
Sorry man, but using such small resolution on such a huge display is VERY unusual.
People simply don't normally do such things. See for example these stats: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_resolution_higher.asp - you are definitely not mainstream.
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Re: Odd STP interface behavior

Postby John Flyer » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:41 pm

hiclass wrote:It is the default position when one bring Sticky Password up from the system tray. Of course, I can move it after the main interface is up, but if I ever close it back to the system tray and bring it up again, it will automatically go to that position. Try it and you will understand what I mean.

Really? On my computer: If I move the SP to the left side of the screen, the window will stay there. After reopening from the system tray, after rebooting the next day. My SP obeys my orders and stays where I decide. :lol:
hiclass wrote:Sticky Password main interface has only 2 sizes. You either have it run in a) full screen mode (100% of the screen) or b) non-full screen mode at a fix size (full width but as you say 98% height). You CAN NOT drag to resize it to any other size than the two.

I CAN drag the frames to resize the window.
hiclass wrote:I won't want it to hide at lower left corner.

Hide?
I attach two minimized screenshots (with Evzen's preferred resolution 1920x1080). I hope these images demonstrates what I have tried to tell.
1920x1080_20.jpg
Lower Left Corner - Min. Size
1920x1080_20.jpg (10.74 KiB) Viewed 5756 times

Resized_20.jpg
Resized and moved
Resized_20.jpg (7.92 KiB) Viewed 5756 times



Evzen wrote:That's just first impression... people who worked with low resolution displays so far and never experienced high resolution have this feeling when they see a proper display.
If you don't "give up", you get used to the resultion very quickly and will never go back.

Sorry, but my eyes must have joined another academy! :geek:
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Re: Odd STP interface behavior

Postby Evzen » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:37 pm

John Flyer wrote:Really? On my computer: If I move the SP to the left side of the screen, the window will stay there. After reopening from the system tray, after rebooting the next day. My SP obeys my orders and stays where I decide. :lol:
As I already said, it's all about the - rather crazy - hiclass' display settings. Just set up your display accordingly (see the previous posts) and you'll get the same result as hiclass.

John Flyer wrote:Sorry, but my eyes must have joined another academy! :geek:
As I said, it's just about not freaking out immediately after seeing it.
When I got my 24" 1920x1200 DELL LCD about 7 years ago, everybody who saw it went like "oh god, it's HUGE and the letters are so small, I would not stand it"... because all they knew so far was like 17" 1280x1024... I call them "fullscreeners" because they would open EVERYTHING only fullscreen (since that's the only way they could see at least some information on the screen)
But then a year later they started realizing that endless up-down-right-left scrolling around spreadsheets is crazy and finally tried something bigger, with more information on the screen... and as I said, NONE of them would ever go back.
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Re: Odd STP interface behavior

Postby hiclass » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:41 pm

Evzen wrote:don't see that as sooooo big problem, especially in 'disaster recovery' cases.

This discussion has nothing to do with 'disaster recovery'. You are not replying wrt. to what I have mentioned in my initial post. Please don't bring the subject being discussed into no direction.

Evzen wrote:Normally users are expected to easily and automatically IMPORT their data (e.g. from browsers).
Copying and pasting is NOT what users normally do.

How do you know? Put up a poll thread and proves that to me.

Evzen wrote:May I know why didn't you use the import feature? Where did you have your passwords stored that you couldn't use import?

I store most of my forum and web login passwords in Opera's Password Manager and Sticky Password is unable to import them. Btw, Opera is my default browser.

Evzen wrote:That's completely incorrect. In fact, this behavior is again specific to your conditions/setup.
Just switch your screen for a moment to native 1920x1080 resolution and default 100% scaling and you will see that Sticky Password window is nicely and freely resizable - when there is enough space on the screen...

And that's the point... in your setup there is not enough space to display the window even at it's default size, so it has to be downsized to fit on the screen - that's why it displays "98% fullscreen" by default for you.
And another applications with bigger default window sizes behave exactly the same.


I tried and you are right about Sticky Password can be resized free under the resolution of 1920x1080 and I also believe it is because it detects the resolution is high enough.

But I have to point out the below:
1. I can agree 100% scaling is the standard scaling, but MS Win7 also provides options to go for bigger scaling. There is simply no reason to force Sticky Password user not to use bigger scaling.
2. 1920x1080 is not native resolution. It mostly being recommended base on the capability of your graphic adapter. A recommended resolution might not the best resolution because your monitor might not be able to cope well with that. In my case, I am using a Samsung Full HD LED TV, 1920x1080 is the highest possible resolution it can go. Do you know what happen when I temporarily switch to 100% scaling and most importantly when I switch to your belove, so called native resolution? See the image below and beware of these facts:

1. The text display is blur and to anyone who wonder why a recommended resolution can cause such effect, let me tell you why, because your monitor don't like to display texts at that resolution.
2. Everything is chop off at all the 4 edges of the screen. See half of the start button? Do you find notepad's standard 3 buttons on the top right?
Snap1.png



Evzen wrote:The default size of the GUI window is 815x562 pixels on standard screen setup and it displays fine even on 800x600 resolution as recommended by Microsoft.

I have my resolution set to 1280x1024 which is much bigger than 815x562.
So if Sticky Password can't act NORMALly on my screen due my resolution setting, neither will it work nicely on the MS recommended resolution. And that is the main reason why I urge to author to obey MS Windows rules and take MS recommendation into account when designing the program's GUI.
Why don't you do the same as I did. Switch to 125% and 1280x1024 resolution, launch the main interface of Sticky Password and judge on yourself, if that resolution provides big enough space for the program to lay everything it wanted to. Trust me brother, that resolution is far more than Sticky Password needs.

Evzen wrote:Sorry man, but using such small resolution on such a huge display is VERY unusual.
People simply don't normally do such things.

Yes, I agree. People normally won't sit in front of PC and staring at its monitor for more than 10 hours a day, like I do.

Evzen wrote:See for example these stats: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_resolution_higher.asp - you are definitely not mainstream.

If to be mainstream is what you want to emphasize here, then let me remind you these:
1. This discussion is not about me, a Sticky Password user.
2. It is about the program Sticky Password, particularly its GUI.

Well, since all my other programs (close to 100 of them) can deal with my display settings except for Sticky Password, according to your logic, that strongly implies its GUI design is not comply to the mainstream's, let alone MS Windows standards.
So, please, together we should urge the author to go with the mainstream GUI design way.
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Re: Odd STP interface behavior

Postby Evzen » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:45 pm

John Flyer wrote:I attach two minimized screenshots (with Evzen's preferred resolution 1920x1080).
Oh, there is nothing like "Evzen's preferred resolution".
The preferred resolution is the native resolution of your display, e.g. 1920x1080 for FullHD 16:9 displays, 1920x1200 for 16:10 displays, 1366x768 for the usual notebook displays, etc.
It has nothing to do with me.
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Re: Odd STP interface behavior

Postby hiclass » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:50 pm

John Flyer wrote:
Evzen wrote:That's just first impression... people who worked with low resolution displays so far and never experienced high resolution have this feeling when they see a proper display.
If you don't "give up", you get used to the resultion very quickly and will never go back.

Sorry, but my eyes must have joined another academy! :geek:


Don't listen to him, if you don't give up, you are stupid.
A "proper display" is something that comforts you the most, not one that being believed to be the best by a no-brained.
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Re: Odd STP interface behavior

Postby Evzen » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:44 am

hiclass wrote:This discussion has nothing to do with 'disaster recovery'. You are not replying wrt. to what I have mentioned in my initial post. Please don't bring the subject being discussed into no direction.
This particular part was about restoring an accidentally closed browser session, hence the term 'disaster recovery'...
Maybe you got lost in the details we were actually talking about.

hiclass wrote:
Evzen wrote:Normally users are expected to easily and automatically IMPORT their data (e.g. from browsers).
Copying and pasting is NOT what users normally do.

How do you know? Put up a poll thread and proves that to me.
Look, I don't want to argue. I'm just saying what's normal procedure and what is the expected process.
Users stores his login/password data in a browser. Then installs Sticky Password. When Sticky Password is run the first time after installation, it automatically brings up the Import wizard, offering you to import existing data - it shows you which browsers have data to import and even let you preview the data and select which items you want to import.
That's the usual and expected process.

hiclass wrote:I store most of my forum and web login passwords in Opera's Password Manager and Sticky Password is unable to import them. Btw, Opera is my default browser.
Import from Opera works like a charm, I believe other Opera users can confirm that.
I have no idea what exactly is/was wrong in your particular case, but in general there is no known problem with import from Opera to Sticky.
What Opera version are we talking about?

hiclass wrote:2. 1920x1080 is not native resolution. It mostly being recommended base on the capability of your graphic adapter.
No. A "native resolution" is defined by your display, not your graphic adapter. The word "native" means here that 1 physical pixel of your display displays exactly 1 'graphical pixel' of your screen. It's also called "1:1 pixel mapping". There is enough info about it on the Internet, just google for it.

hiclass wrote:A recommended resolution might not the best resolution because your monitor might not be able to cope well with that. In my case, I am using a Samsung Full HD LED TV, 1920x1080 is the highest possible resolution it can go. Do you know what happen when I temporarily switch to 100% scaling and most importantly when I switch to your belove, so called native resolution? See the image below and beware of these facts:

1. The text display is blur and to anyone who wonder why a recommended resolution can cause such effect, let me tell you why, because your monitor don't like to display texts at that resolution.
No. What you see is a result of incorrect setup of your TV... Your screenshot is actually perfectly sharp. Just look at your post on a different computer (or at least on a different display) and you will see it.

The blur you see is a result of "overscan": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overscan.
The point is that TVs are primarily intended to display TV and video signals, not PC signals. Therefore the overscan feature is ON by default for those signals and external inputs which are not explicitely intended for PC signals.
Some TVs have DVI/HDMI inputs specifically labeled "PC" - these don't use overscan, but map the pixels 1:1.
Some TVs can configure the overscan feature separately in their Setup menu.
Some TVs switch from overscan to 1:1 pixel mapping mode only after assigning the input a correct 'name' - that's what my Samsung plasma D6900 does: if I simply plug my computer display to the TV HDMI intput, the picture is also cropped, blurry and ugly... but the moment I assign the "PC" or "PC/DVI" name to the input using the "TOOLS" button on the TV's remote, the picture is crystal clear!

BTW, I hope you use digital (DVI or HDMI) connection between the PC and TV, not the analog VGA cable...

hiclass wrote:2. Everything is chop off at all the 4 edges of the screen. See half of the start button? Do you find notepad's standard 3 buttons on the top right?
Yep, that's the overscan - about 3-5% of the picture is off-the-screen.

hiclass wrote:Why don't you do the same as I did. Switch to 125% and 1280x1024 resolution, launch the main interface of Sticky Password and judge on yourself
Of course i did that and I know that it DOES display weird. I'm not questioning that at all.
It does not honor the high-DPI setting, thus it tries to display at 125% of its normal size instead of at 100% of the normal size. That's why it still can't fit on the screen - the 1280x1024 is still "not enough"...

All I'm saying here is that the combination you are using, i.e. low resolution PLUS 125% scaling, is really VERY unusual, thus a minimum users are affected by this problem.
Normally user would use EITHER a low resolution (with 100% scaling) OR a 125% scaling (with higher resolution). On both those cases the effect you are seeing does not happen.
Low resolution with 100% scaling is perfect and there is absolutely no problem - Sticky works just fine with resolution as low as 800x600.
High resolution with 125% scaling looks odd here and there... in general it's not a big issue. But YES, there IS something to improve.

, if that resolution provides big enough space for the program to lay everything it wanted to. Trust me brother, that resolution is far more than Sticky Password needs.

hiclass wrote:
Evzen wrote:Sorry man, but using such small resolution on such a huge display is VERY unusual.
People simply don't normally do such things.

Yes, I agree. People normally won't sit in front of PC and staring at its monitor for more than 10 hours a day, like I do.
Heh, 14-16 hours is nothing unusual for me... mostly on my DELL notebook with 15,6" 1920x1080 :-P. I'm 46, BTW...

hiclass wrote:1. This discussion is not about me, a Sticky Password user.
2. It is about the program Sticky Password, particularly its GUI.
Well, the point is that the discussion showed that the discussed problem is actually caused by your particular and very rare setup/environment... and that - as can be seen from the stats - vast majority of other users are not affected by this problem.

Other aspect of the discussion is that you noticed the problem actually while using Sticky in a way that is somehow unexpected or at least not expected to happen on a daily basis (filling database by copying and pasting data from other application)... and if you would use import instead of copying, you would not notice the problem that badly.
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Re: Odd STP interface behavior

Postby hiclass » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:05 pm

Evzen wrote:I'm just saying what's normal procedure and what is the expected process.
Users stores his login/password data in a browser. Then installs Sticky Password. When Sticky Password is run the first time after installation, it automatically brings up the Import wizard, offering you to import existing data - it shows you which browsers have data to import and even let you preview the data and select which items you want to import.
That's the usual and expected process.

Ok, Let get a little bit deeper into this "Copy and Paste" human study...

During the setup of the program what normally will one (a newbie to password manager like Sticky password) do? Particularly if he/she intends to use the program seriously, that means:

1. Import data from browse as you said. Let's assume it is a success (btw in my case, nothing get imported, not even a single bookmark of my browser was imported, let alone my passwords which are encrypted in a Opera file). But I couldn't care less, see 2. below.

2. He/she will probably want to review all his/her existing forum, web and what not... passwords. If an existing password appear red in Sticky Password, he/she will need to generate a strong one, right? agree? So, definitely, the import of existing passwords does not matter any more, since most of them will need to be changed.

3. Ah! And there is a "Secure memo" feature in Sticky Password. I have tried it and like it. You can even modify its input template, fonts and so on. This is a good place to store my software purchasing info. Since I am going to rely heavily on Sticky Password, I copy and paste all my purchase info which I currently store in a MS Excel spread sheet inside an encrypted WinRAR file. I wonder why, an experience user like you don't expect a Sticky Password newbie will also make use of the Secure Memo feature. If he/she does, copy and paste is inevitable, agree? Do you use it on your own?

In brief, even if you are the president of USA, don't put statement like you absolutely know what NORMAL American will normally do. They normally will do something you normally don't expect.
What NORMAL people normally do? Only God knows, not you.
See the images below, do you ever use those functions in Sticky Password that I have circled in red?
Snap1.png
Snap1.png (56.96 KiB) Viewed 5691 times

What do you think one will do after using those "copy" functions provided by Sticky Password? "Paste" of course! Man... I can't believe myself for I will discuss a simple "Copy and paste" subject to this length with someone like you... I normally won't. See, even I myself don't know what I will do and this is normal, it just happen in life.

Evzen wrote:What Opera version are we talking about?

Copy and paste from the About option of my Opera:
Version information
Version 12.14
Build 1738
Platform x64
System Windows 7

In fact, I don't even want to use the IMPORT function. Since I am setting up Sticky Password, I want to take this opportunity to review all those web and forum accounts that I have joined these years. I really enjoy the process of reviewing my profiles... but Sticky Password's fancy interface has cut down my pleasure a lot.

Evzen wrote:A "native resolution" is defined by your display, not your graphic adapter. The word "native" means here that 1 physical pixel of your display displays exactly 1 'graphical pixel' of your screen. It's also called "1:1 pixel mapping". There is enough info about it on the Internet, just google for it.
The blur you see is a result of "overscan": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overscan.
The point is that TVs are primarily intended to display TV and video signals, not PC signals. Therefore the overscan feature is ON by default for those signals and external inputs which are not explicitely intended for PC signals.
Some TVs have DVI/HDMI inputs specifically labeled "PC" - these don't use overscan, but map the pixels 1:1.
Some TVs can configure the overscan feature separately in their Setup menu.
Some TVs switch from overscan to 1:1 pixel mapping mode only after assigning the input a correct 'name' - that's what my Samsung plasma D6900 does: if I simply plug my computer display to the TV HDMI intput, the picture is also cropped, blurry and ugly... but the moment I assign the "PC" or "PC/DVI" name to the input using the "TOOLS" button on the TV's remote, the picture is crystal clear!

BTW, I hope you use digital (DVI or HDMI) connection between the PC and TV, not the analog VGA cable...

I appreciate you effort in telling me the above. FYI, I am using a dual-monitor setup. My main display is the 32" Samsung LED (HDMI conncection) and a secondary display on 24" Dell monitor (DVI connection). Seriously, I would like to remind you again, people are different, just like you and me. What I want is BIG and what you enjoy is sharp. I find bigger text easier to read (not crystal clear but small size text), I find bigger Recycle bin on Desktop easier to drop items into than a small one. I like to hit my BIG [Enter] key on my keyboard in order to press a big button on a program, not a small and sharply display button and most importantly:
I don't see anything blur, not sharp or in wrong proportion with my current 125% scaling and 1280x1024 resolution.

Evzen wrote:Yep, that's the overscan - about 3-5% of the picture is off-the-screen.

Yap, it happen when I adjust my display setting according to what you have been advocating. (100% scaling and native resolution) What now? Why me?

Evzen wrote:Of course i did that and I know that it DOES display weird. I'm not questioning that at all.
It does not honor the high-DPI setting, thus it tries to display at 125% of its normal size instead of at 100% of the normal size. That's why it still can't fit on the screen - the 1280x1024 is still "not enough"...

All I'm saying here is that the combination you are using, i.e. low resolution PLUS 125% scaling, is really VERY unusual, thus a minimum users are affected by this problem.
Normally user would use EITHER a low resolution (with 100% scaling) OR a 125% scaling (with higher resolution). On both those cases the effect you are seeing does not happen.
Low resolution with 100% scaling is perfect and there is absolutely no problem - Sticky works just fine with resolution as low as 800x600.
High resolution with 125% scaling looks odd here and there... in general it's not a big issue. But YES, there IS something to improve.

Here is the point, using my display setup, everything is eventually laid on screen after Sticky Password adjust itself as you have stated before (I doubt how come you know). So, the problem is not due to insufficient space for all items that the program need to present to its user. The problem which I have mentioned is the misbehave of its main interface:
Code: Select all
a) it blocks the Taskbar
b) it is unable to show its Window title bar in a correct size wrt to my display setting where else other skin capable programs has no problem to do so.

a) and b) has nothing to do with space on screen.

Evzen wrote:Heh, 14-16 hours is nothing unusual for me... mostly on my DELL notebook with 15,6" 1920x1080 :-P. I'm 46, BTW...

Why are you still torturing yourself like that... I mean at your age (close to mine)?

Evzen wrote:Well, the point is that the discussion showed that the discussed problem is actually caused by your particular and very rare setup/environment... and that - as can be seen from the stats - vast majority of other users are not affected by this problem.

Other aspect of the discussion is that you noticed the problem actually while using Sticky in a way that is somehow unexpected or at least not expected to happen on a daily basis (filling database by copying and pasting data from other application)... and if you would use import instead of copying, you would not notice the problem that badly.

Assumption after assumption...

A good program need serious user, like me, I assume you can agree with this.
It ought to be able to face every challenge a user might throw at it, in this case 125% scaling and 1280x1024 resolution.
hiclass
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Re: Odd STP interface behavior

Postby John Flyer » Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:31 pm

hiclass wrote:And there is a "Secure memo" feature in Sticky Password. I have tried it and like it. You can even modify its input template, fonts and so on.

Yes, the Secure Memo feature is one of the advantages with Sticky. Like you I have started to use these memos for software license data. And for my credit cards... The display function is great. Do you know you can just click any word to copy to the clipboard? I have suggested to have a floating secure memo

hiclass wrote:copy and paste is inevitable

Copy and paste is a widely used function, also with Sticky. The most recent years I have had a fixed task bar because it is so easy to change the focus, but – in a copy and paste situation – I mostly use the Alt-Tab keystroke. The preferred method is a personal choice, but I really like to pull the attention to the good old Alt-Tab. Still useful!
John Flyer
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Re: Odd STP interface behavior

Postby Evzen » Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:09 pm

hiclass wrote:2. He/she will probably want to review all his/her existing forum, web and what not... passwords. If an existing password appear red in Sticky Password, he/she will need to generate a strong one, right? agree?
No, not really...
First, the red mark only informs the user about potential problem, which is in most cases a password that is considered weak. It does not force the user to change anything. Anyway, that's not important point...
Second - and THAT is the important point - changing the password only in Sticky, without changing it on the web/forum/etc. doesn't help you much... in fact it can be quite destructive action because then you will not be able to log in the web/forum/etc. anymore!

If you want to change a password for some web/forum/etc., you should:
  • log in the web/forum/etc. using your existing password first - and the easiest way is to simply launch the Sticky account you have just imported from your browser; but you can use any other way you prefer too
  • go to the appropriate "my account" settings
  • change the password there - Sticky will assist you with this, the password generator will pop up automatically when you place cursor in a password field
And Sticky will automatically change the password in database, you don't need to do anything manually.

hiclass wrote:So, definitely, the import of existing passwords does not matter any more, since most of them will need to be changed.
As stated above, the existing passwords actually DO matter a lot, so importing them is still a very usefull action.

hiclass wrote:3. Ah! And there is a "Secure memo" feature in Sticky Password.
Now that's a different story... Copying and pasting data to Secure Memos makes perfect sense. If you would have stated this important fact right away, we would have saved a lot of time and a lot of typing... (BTW, English is not my mother tongue, so I really wonder if this sentence is grammatically correct ;-) )
But somehow I feel that the copy/paste discussion wasn't about Secure Memos right from the start... ;-)

Anyway, as I already stated several times, the problem YOU are encountering during copy/paste IS caused by your particular setup which doesn't allow you to arrange the windows side by side for more comfortable copying and pasting.
Typical users with typical setups have no problem with that. I'm pretty sure that a lot of the forum readers would confirm that... if they would find enough courage to step in this discussion.

hiclass wrote:Copy and paste from the About option of my Opera:
Version information
Version 12.14
Build 1738
Platform x64
System Windows 7
I just tried that 64-bit Opera 12.14 and import works perfectly. I had my passwords protected by Master Password in Opera, so Sticky told me to remove the protection to be able to import the passwords. I did that and then Sticky perfectly loaded all accounts and bookmarks from Opera.
I really wonder what could be wrong in your case. If there is something what prevents import from Opera working in particular cases, then I strongly believe that fixing this would help many more people than fixing the GUI problem.

hiclass wrote:Seriously, I would like to remind you again, people are different, just like you and me. What I want is BIG and what you enjoy is sharp. I find bigger text easier to read (not crystal clear but small size text), I find bigger Recycle bin on Desktop easier to drop items into than a small one. I like to hit my BIG [Enter] key on my keyboard in order to press a big button on a program, not a small and sharply display button
I'm not arguing with that at all. The point is that if you like things this way, you should have a different setup - a big display with LOW resolution, not with FullHD resolution. Then you would have your big items AND non-blurry display without having to use 125% scaling.
Choosing the proper tools is very important for achieving the best results.

hiclass wrote:and most importantly:
I don't see anything blur, not sharp or in wrong proportion with my current 125% scaling and 1280x1024 resolution.
If you use 1280x1024 on a display with 1920x1080 physical resolution, then what you say is simply physically impossible, sorry... The ONLY way to display clear picture is 1:1 pixel mapping. ANYTHING else MUST be more or less blurred. That's pure physics, not me...

Anyway, what I would try in your case is
  • switch both the PC graphic output and the TV to FullHD 1920x1080 resolution
  • make sure the TV overscan is OFF, so that no edges are cut off and the picture is sharp
  • switch the display scaling to 150% (and maybe play some more with additional changes of controls/fonts size)
and see if it would be acceptable for you.
The 150% scaling works different than the 125% (even Sticky's caption has correct height in this case! ;-) ), so it may work for you. However, icons and pictures look more blurry...

hiclass wrote:Yap, it happen when I adjust my display setting according to what you have been advocating. (100% scaling and native resolution) What now? Why me?
Sorry, it's maybe my English, but I don't know what you mean here... If you want, tell me the exact model of your Samsung TV and we can elaborate in details what exactly happens when you switch the TV to different modes (maybe the TV "smartly" turns overscan ON only when it detects "video" resolution like 1920x1080, 1280x720, 720x480, etc.)
I enjoy getting to roots of things... the problem is that things are usually quite complex, typical people don't understand it and can't follow all the details.

hiclass wrote:Here is the point, using my display setup, everything is eventually laid on screen after Sticky Password adjust itself as you have stated before (I doubt how come you know).
I know because I'm in the computers since late 80's, know a lot about how things work technically inside and have a good analytic abilities - I can very quckly find relations between different facts and behavior, causes and effects, etc.

hiclass wrote:So, the problem is not due to insufficient space for all items that the program need to present to its user.
Correct, the ROOT CAUSE of the problem is an incorrect behavior of the GUI. No doubt about that.
The other thing is, how many users of Sticky Password would be affected by this problem in real life. My guess is less than 1%...

hiclass wrote:Why are you still torturing yourself like that... I mean at your age (close to mine)?
People are different, remember? ;-) That's how I WANT it, that's what's perfectly fine for me and that's what doesn't give me any pain at all.

hiclass wrote:Assumption after assumption...
No, not really. Have you heard about "typical user scenario"? That's what most software products focus on.
And then there is the pareto principle in computers too... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle#In_software
Evzen
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Re: Odd STP interface behavior

Postby Evzen » Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:15 pm

John Flyer wrote:...but – in a copy and paste situation – I mostly use the Alt-Tab keystroke. The preferred method is a personal choice, but I really like to pull the attention to the good old Alt-Tab. Still useful!
Couldn't agree more! And drag-and-drop combined with Alt-Tab is SO fast and efficient!
The problem is that common PC users are not able to use their PC and software efficientlyand waste their time and power doing things weird ways...
Evzen
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