Search Behavior

Search Behavior

Postby msandrews » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:07 pm

I just switched from Sticky Password v5 (pro) to v6 (trial for now) and I have to say that I'm sufficiently unhappy with the search behavior of v6 that I'll almost certainly revert back to v5 and not pay to "upgrade." The two specific things that I dislike so far are

  1. Search-as-you-type is extremely slow and stuttered in v6 compared to v5.

  2. Search results do not show the actual matches when the matching text is within the login of a multi-login account.
That second point in particular is pretty much a deal killer. If what I'm looking for happens to be within one of the logins of an account having multiple logins, the v6 search function, unlike the v5 search function, doesn't really find what I'm looking for at all. Instead, it shows me that a match is within one of the accounts, but I have to manually edit every account, and then manually edit every login within the account, until I find what I'm looking for myself. That's ridiculous and totally unacceptable! No "upgrade" purchase from me until that gets fixed.
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Re: Search Behavior

Postby chaosxian » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:10 am

Re #2... I don't see that. I searched for various user names on an account with four logins, and each yielded the correct account.

Is it a specific field search that isn't working for you?
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Re: Search Behavior

Postby msandrews » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:52 am

chaosxian wrote:Re #2... I don't see that. I searched for various user names on an account with four logins, and each yielded the correct account.

Yes, the search results do yield the accounts that have a match within, but they do not display the matching login itself. To see (or edit or delete or whatever) the actual matching login, you must manually select and edit the account shown in the search results, and then manually edit every login within the account, until you find the matching login yourself. Multiply that by however many multi-login accounts appear in the search results and that's what it takes to actually lay eyes on every matching database entry.
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Re: Search Behavior

Postby Evzen » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:55 am

And how would you like it to work (given the fact that SP6 does not display the individual logins in the list views, unlike the SP5 does)?
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Re: Search Behavior

Postby msandrews » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:34 am

Evzen wrote:And how would you like it to work (given the fact that SP6 does not display the individual logins in the list views, unlike the SP5 does)?

Why, just like SP5, of course, which does display ALL matches in its search results.
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Re: Search Behavior

Postby Evzen » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:37 am

The point is that SP5 actually displays the multi-login accounts WRONG - the logins are wrongly displayed in column Account and the the column Login actually displays the passwords.

This wrong view does not exist in SP6 anymore.

I do agree that the behavior of search is not friendly in the case you describe.
Reporting an error is one thing, but suggesting a working solution, that's a different story...
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Re: Search Behavior

Postby John Flyer » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:07 pm

msandrews, I am just curious. In what situations do you need to have the search phrase displayed? Is it not sufficient to have the actual account(s) displayed?

I think I have understood your issue. I searched for 'live.com', SP found 6 accounts. 3 of them with 'live.com' in the comment field, 1 with the search phrase in the URL, 1 account with single login (phrase displayed), 1 account with 2 logins (phrase not displayed). But when should I need to search that way?

The search efficiency is very good on my computer, but I have less than 100 accounts in the db. Maybe your db needs maintenance? SP has no option for that. At a previous occasion I imported a lot of URLs from the browser to the Bookmarks section. Naturally the file size increased. I did not like to have all the URLs without login requirements, so I deleted all the bookmarks items. The database retained it's size, even after a reboot.

I performed this manual maintenance:
¤ Export the entire database (encrypted PWS format), use your main password, uncheck 'Set password expiration date'.
¤ Exit from SP
¤ Copy the exported db to the original's storage.

Now the db size is extremely reduced.

Why? I should have put this question to another topic.
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Re: Search Behavior

Postby msandrews » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:53 pm

Evzen wrote:The point is that SP5 actually displays the multi-login accounts WRONG - the logins are wrongly displayed in column Account and the the column Login actually displays the passwords.

This wrong view does not exist in SP6 anymore.

I do agree that the behavior of search is not friendly in the case you describe.
Reporting an error is one thing, but suggesting a working solution, that's a different story...

I'm as anal-retentive as anyone I know, and the fact that SP5 displays logins in the Account column in the case of matches within multi-login accounts doesn't bother me in the least. The logins are displayed very logically indented under the account to which they belong. Still, I don't say you're wrong if you're bothered by this.

The "wrong view" in SP5, as you call it, is"fixed" in SP6 only by virtue of the fact that there are no longer any column headings from the search results, a "solution" that would be equally effective for the search results in SP5. So there's your working solution.
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Re: Search Behavior

Postby msandrews » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:05 pm

John Flyer wrote:msandrews, I am just curious. In what situations do you need to have the search phrase displayed? Is it not sufficient to have the actual account(s) displayed?

I want the search phrase displayed in every situation in which I'm searching. When searching for something that exists, I want the search results to actually find what I'm searching for and display it in the search results. Once found, I invariably want to perform some function on that object--run it, copy the password, edit it, delete it, whatever. The current search results just "get me in the neighborhood" of the login matching within a multi-login account. From there, I have to go find the actual match myself.

Thanks for your database maintenance suggestion. I'll give it a try.
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Re: Search Behavior

Postby Evzen » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:27 pm

If you search for a text in Windows Explorer, it displays a preview of the found file with the searched phrase highlighted - fine...
But then when you open the file (e.g. Word file) from the search results, it won't bring you right to searched phrase, it will still "bring you to the neighborhood" only...

The SP search simply searches the accounts, thus it displays the results on the accounts level.
It's not a database program... unlike MS Access or LibreOffice Base are (these would surely bring you right to the very record containing the phrase).

The main purpose of SP is something else than perfectly comfortable editing of every possible attribute of the stored data, so I personally can definitely live with some discomfort in operations which are not performed too frequently.
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Re: Search Behavior

Postby msandrews » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:35 am

Evzen wrote:If you search for a text in Windows Explorer, it displays a preview of the found file with the searched phrase highlighted - fine...
But then when you open the file (e.g. Word file) from the search results, it won't bring you right to searched phrase, it will still "bring you to the neighborhood" only...

Wow, that analogy fails at every level to make what I guess is the point you're trying to make. First, Windows Explorer is a shell program that doesn't create or maintain any of the content it's sifting through in the scenario you propose, yet it does yield search results showing every match no matter where it exists. That's more than SP6 accomplishes when searching its own database (more on that later).

Second, at the point Windows Explorer has identified all the matches in all the files of various formats, the program responsible for that content didn't conduct the search that yielded those results. Open the file with the appropriate program (Word, Excel, Outlook, or whatever) and conduct the search using that program's native search function, however, and that program will yield each and every match in the file. I daresay that if it didn't you'd think there was something seriously deficient about the search function of that program. (Sort of sounds like the SP6 behavior I've been describing, don't you think?)

The SP search simply searches the accounts, thus it displays the results on the accounts level.

SP clearly does search objects other than accounts. It finds and displays matches in secure memo content. It finds and displays matches in the login of single-login accounts. It finds but does not display matches in the logins of multi-login accounts. That's the issue, an issue that didn't exist until SP6.

It's not a database program... unlike MS Access or LibreOffice Base are (these would surely bring you right to the very record containing the phrase).

A database program is exactly what SP is--a password database program!

The main purpose of SP is something else than perfectly comfortable editing of every possible attribute of the stored data, so I personally can definitely live with some discomfort in operations which are not performed too frequently.

Unless you're the Sticky Password product manager I don't think you should presume to know everything the product should or should not be expected to do. Moreover, I have been discussing useful product behavior that the product did provide prior to v6. If you don't have a use case for that functionality, then be happy that the product does everything you want it to do. Others may have needs that differ from yours.
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